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Hijab
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truth seeker



Joined: 26 Dec 2005
Posts: 1386
Location: NYC, USA

PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 4:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Goku wrote:
God bless her.



Just keep it stuffed in your pants, pedophile follower....

Easy now, I know it's hard to contain it...

Need a magnifying glass?
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"Fools call us hate mongers. They will be ashamed of themselves when we hoist the standard of victory in every land and victory is around the corner."
- Ali Sina

Moe Akbar!
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Ajax



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
Posts: 2927
Location: Elysian Fields

PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 5:08 am    Post subject: Re: the typical lying muslim follower of the horny lying moh Reply with quote

Anna Doe wrote:
Hey J. Hernandes the non-muslim

Aren't you Servidor from shiachat.com ?
http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=82560
Same avatar from brownpride.com

Same signature below the avatar:
the Spirit or Quetzalcoatl alive and untamed..
Same T Huxley quote
"suffer fools gladly,"
And may I say same arrogance?

But why are you an atheist now? (look at his 39 first posts) Will you in a few weeks suddenly announce your conversion to islam because of the lies of Ali Sina and the incredible intellect of the muslims here and the truth and scientific discoveries of the koran and the sadiq mohamed?

Try again, and this time don't be arrogant, change your avatar, sig, quotes! muslims you are winning because of the stupidity and greed of our governments, but your arrogance will make you fall.


So was it lies or takyya in your two posts of yours:

[snipped]

Of course I may be wrong...
But this is too many coincidence, why are you pretending to be an atheist?
No atheist will ever praise the hijab and call women candies (or only as a compliment). [/color]

Good catch, Anna.
One more coincidence:
J. Hernandez wrote:
I am for Hijab I think it is wonderful I mean expression through clothing has always had a positive effect on society, just like I love my "hecho en Mexico" T-shirt and creased khakis these women love their hijab. I definetly respect the women I know who wear it, its like a walking sign that says "I am not eye candy" btw whoever said that they want to pull the womens scarves off when they see them, get a life seriously. It wasnt so long ago that people wanted to shoot me just because of my complexion dont holler terrorists and then make it a point to terrorize.

And see what his signature image says:
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J. Hernandez



Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 121

PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh bravo you have managed to figure out that I was once a Muslim, when I said I was not is simply beyond me and of course you can look at my latest posts on Shia Chat where I of course gave my recently published reasons for not being a Muslim feel free to check my profile where no religion is specified. And by the way they suspended me for posting my paper, of course you didnt exactly put much thought into your actions so I forgive you However I am shocked at the fact, that someone would start accusing me of being a pedophile because I said hijab can reap benefits in certain societies. Once again I must say if Muslims are extremeists, then what on earth does that make such nihilistic, irrational human beings such as those who would accuse a fellow human being of such behaviour solely on the basis of such a simple statement? The fact that you presumeably read even one of my first 39 posts and assumed that I am part of a Muslim conspiracy theory just proves you probably have not passed Grade 11 and are just to afraid to admitt that you are out of your depth. Or you did not read any of my posts on this forum or on Shia Chat except of course the ones that seemed to have triggered so many people on this forum; and thus you reveal yourself to be an oddly paranoid individual or if you did read one my posts on either forum then you are just a hostile and confused individual with no education on basic physics.

I dont even know whether its sad or funny that you went to such lengths to try and justify harassing me I will stick with funny as I am a non-confrontational type of person. With regards to your mocking me because I was raised Catholic and converted to Islam and was confused on Aquidah, and then after being paid to compose a research paper(that is after being stabbed and revisiting my favourite detention centre) which was a non-bias explanation of quantum cosmology aswell as a critique of the kalam model(I have posted it here also, two seperate cosmological journals published it aswell and I am discussing with the internet infidels), however I assume this is like Chinese to you so let me bring it down to apostate dogmatism "Me no Muslim cauused oves Evyydence"

I now have my research funded by a few of my professors and atheistic/agnostic organizations in the area; and then we have cosmological journals publish my papers hence I am kind of like an atheistic apologist who gets paid to research and write essays pretty sweet deal considering. My latest paper was simplistic and thus I wanted to make sure theists and atheists alike were able to easily get a hold of it. I am also studying for my Phd in cosmology along with the aforementioned I write poetry and help in community organizations including gang intervention.

Now Sahara just as you spoke from the personal aspect as did I, various Muslim aquaintences have imformed me of why they wear hijab and I can assure you over here 9 times out of 10 it is against their families wishes i.e they get bruised for wearing hijab, not to mention intellectually challenged prats such as those who assault them for covering in public. For example one of the aboriginal muslimahs I know wore a scarf into a local shopping centre, her head was slammed against the concrete and ironically with her people being the original inhabitants of this nation she was told to "Go Home". As for the heat I wore a thobe and palestinian scarf almost all of the time, the Shia doctrine dictates that men are to cover as much as women as it is an honour that God gave to humans. If thats Morrocan oppression well then I will send one of my cousins to Morroco and you can live in West Side Compton for a year, perhaps then you wouldnt whine over such non sense.

Of course nobody here uses their minds anymore they here anything pro-Islam and they start salivating over the chance to scream pedophile dogmatism is such a shame. The arguement I gave was simple, people would assault me in certain areas of Compton because of my skin colour this is wrong, if I wear blue for example in the Nickerson Gardens I will get assaulted and that is wrong. Any human being has the right to wear what they want, it is an inalieable right point blank period and anyone who assaults someone or discriminates against them for dressing a certain way are just as bad as a racist. Human beings are not skin colours or fabrics, what happened to equality and judgeing someone for who they are not how they look or dress?

As for me being an imbecile kiddo do not play yourself, I made a simple comment that you desperately tried to translate into a bias outlook on how women dress. In fact can someone please explain to me how saying a woman who wears hijab gives off a statement that she is not eye candy, implies whether via semmantics or rationality that those who do not wear hijab are deliberately being eye candy? My Del La Hoya arguement holds water, I wasnt saying anyone who doesnt box him is not a hard worker, I was saying Fernando Vargas worked hard. The same vice versa in regards to the hijab comment. I.e women who wear hijab give off a positive statement that they are not eye candy, this in no way infers a second premiss against the average female's clothing and anyone who invents such a premiss has done so themselves and therefore cannot attribute it to me.

And once again almost as if on cue, sahara converts "But like the neo-nazi who swears that "wetbacks" are being given all the good job positions in Texas due undeserved sympathy; I am sure you have all the sound and rational reasons in the world pertaining to the issue of why you abandoned Islam." into something along the lines of "Sahara is a straight up Neo-Nazi!!!" Is this a confession of the transcendent sort?

And I am more than happy to suffer you gladly, Hijab is a nice way for a woman to portray her outlook on the world, highly conservative, morally oriented and does not assume that she is centripedal to the world. Other clothing can give the same message in fact I never ruled out such a reality. Ajax you didnt make any sense so "Jabba jubba jabbada" to you to my disgruntled friend. Damn I am craving some candies

By the way I do apologise if my simplistic statement that was not directed at anyone offended any or all of you either way I am not going to take it back, so looks like we have to agree to disagree.
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The Spirit of Quetzalcoatl alive and untamed..

"There is no God, it is clear as the sun and as evident as the day that there is no God, and still more that there can be none." Ludwig Feuerbach


Last edited by J. Hernandez on Sun Jun 18, 2006 3:20 pm; edited 5 times in total
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J. Hernandez



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Posts: 121

PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

By the way for those who are interested in my paper which explains why I am not a theist feel free to read it here for free http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22993&start=0 in the discussion I also replied to a Christian http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=439752#439752

And in the God section I also posted 8 reasons why God doesnt exist. And my latest research paper which is being funded by the kind atheists at the local University will be on Quantum Cosmology and how and why it excludes God, similar to the other paper however more detailed and it will take some formal education in physics to understand.
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The Spirit of Quetzalcoatl alive and untamed..

"There is no God, it is clear as the sun and as evident as the day that there is no God, and still more that there can be none." Ludwig Feuerbach
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Ajax



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
Posts: 2927
Location: Elysian Fields

PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J. Hernandez wrote:
Any human being has the right to wear what they want, it is an inalieable right point blank period and anyone who assaults someone or discriminates against them for dressing a certain way are just as bad as a racist.

And I gave you examples why wearing hijab or not is often not a choice given to women in Islam. Don't you think women should be free to not wear a hijab and should not automatically be assumed as potential rape victims? Don't you agree that the mullahs forcing girls back into a burning building not only denied them the right to wear what they want but also denied their right to live because something as stupid as hijabs? When a piece of clothing article has an association with a certain practice, the wearer should be aware of the consequences. If you wear a KKK outfit, don't complain if I call you a racist. If you wear a swastika armband, don't complain if I call you a Nazi. In both examples, it's your right to foolishly wear them, but it does not make me a racist to avoid you.

Hijabs and burqas are associated with the oppression of women in Islam because they are forced on them, either by threats or by brainwashing. That is rather hypocritical, don't you think, to say that any human being has the right to wear what they want and yet support hijabs that are forced on women. Moreover, you discriminate against women who do not wear hijabs by not automatically granting them the same respect you give to hijab wearers.

Lastly, no one here advocates assaulting or discriminating women for wearing hijabs. Why do you claim so? We see them as victims of Islamic oppression. Why should we make it even worse for them by assaulting or discriminating against them?

J. Hernandez wrote:
And I am more than happy to suffer you gladly, Hijab is a nice way for a woman to portray her outlook on the world, highly conservative, morally oriented and does not assume that she is centripedal to the world. Other clothing can give the same message in fact I never ruled out such a reality. Ajax you didnt make any sense so "Jabba jubba jabbada" to you to my disgruntled friend. Damn I am craving some candies

That's because your premise didn't make sense to begin with.
If expressions through clothing has always had a positive effect on society, then whatever style of clothing one wears to express him/herself is irrelevant. The end result is always a positive effect on society. That includes both conservative and revealing clothes. So, why don't you automatically view women with revealing clothes with the same respect just as you would women with hijabs? Also, if your premise is corect, can you say forcing girls back into a burning building a positive effect on society?

I guess someone pursuing a PhD needs something as clear as a walking sign that a woman is not an eye candy, and here I thought that PhD students should be trained to make objective observations and to avoid making conclusions before the facts are in to support them. I hope you won't get into a habit of making broad generalizations in your PhD thesis. Yabba dabba doo, my narrow minded friend.
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J. Hernandez



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A challenge aye? First of all I never stated that it is okay to force women to dress one way or another, whether forcing them to wear hijab or as some have reportedly dreamed of one day doing forcing them not to wear hijab either way the action is wrong and we both know it there is I think no dispute here. However you seemed to have made up a conversation between you and I where I spuriously sanctioned forcible dress codes, perhaps you can supply a brief outline of what transpired because it has completely slipped my mind.

Hijab does not symbolize racism it is funny how one goes in between two extremes in order to justify plain bigotry, dont call a cat a biscuit if hijab had any such implications whether racist or just as negative a swastika I would not have said it gave off a positive message. Since when does hijab signify anything except; A. a supposed sanction by God or B. a choice made by a woman of her own free will? Both of which we can grant are positive. And imagine if a man was to force a woman to eat pizza's and this happened to be publicized would we all start saying pizza is wrong? Pizza is an ever lasting sign of oppression? And all who choose to eat this abhorrible food should be launched feet first into the deepest hole one can dig, while they gobble down their cheese infested demonic dish? Such preposterous ideas are dangerous and the fact that a supposed rationalist like yourself happens to be propounding them speaks volumes in regards to who's mind is closed and vice versa.

You then assume all muslim women who are not forced to wear hijab, are conviently brainwashed my goodness you must think very little of women to suppose that some arabic hocus pocus would actually deprive them of their senses to the point that they would conform to a dress code that is just soooo oppressive. I know ample muslim women, some students, some teachers most of which were raised as full fledged westerners and who were taught to think much like yourself yet they choose to cover up. The reason I have heard is most popular is that God has sanctioned it to make sure they are known and respected as muslim women, others have nice little poetic justifications such as "I am like a pearl in its shell". Either way its their body hence it is their choice, and claiming it is an everlasting scar of oppression shows that your knowledge is infinitesmal on the topic.

Next you twisted my statement, logically only positive clothing can only have a positive effect on society I even explained the positive message that I have seen hijab give off, hence it is your own imagination which has inferred two additional premises to tail my sentence. If I say medicine always has a positive affect will you then demand that I supply the cure for aids? Grow up, however if I must I will rearrange my sentence so as not to provoke irrational imaginations "Positive expression through clothing always has a positive effect upon society" sheesh. Next I never said I didnt view women who do not wear hijab as I do those who happen to wear it, I simply stated that women who wear hijab give off in my expierence a certain message so where exactly does this imply that women who do not wear hijab do not? Considering this is a topic on hijab isnt it obvious why I commentated solely on this style of dress? Can you explain how via semmantics or pure rationality how you get the second premiss from my statement?

With your ending comments, pure speculation in regards to how you have portrayed me that is; in all reality I havent said anything like that which you attribute to me, so but natural your conclusion is as erreneous as your opening. One giant post consisting of 98% pure ad hoc.
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The Spirit of Quetzalcoatl alive and untamed..

"There is no God, it is clear as the sun and as evident as the day that there is no God, and still more that there can be none." Ludwig Feuerbach
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Ajax



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
Posts: 2927
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J. Hernandez wrote:
A challenge aye? First of all I never stated that it is okay to force women to dress one way or another, whether forcing them to wear hijab or as some have reportedly dreamed of one day doing forcing them not to wear hijab either way the action is wrong and we both know it there is I think no dispute here. However you seemed to have made up a conversation between you and I where I spuriously sanctioned forcible dress codes, perhaps you can supply a brief outline of what transpired because it has completely slipped my mind.

The dispute here is that you are behaving like a muslim, that is discriminating women on the basis of wearing a hijab. Whether or not you end up respecting women who don't wear hijabs is beside the point. FWIW, I already mentioned that you don't close such a possibility.

However, the fact that you automatically grant a respect for women wearing hijabs as a non-eye candies is a discrimination. Period.

J. Hernandez wrote:
Hijab does not symbolize racism it is funny how one goes in between two extremes in order to justify plain bigotry, dont call a cat a biscuit if hijab had any such implications whether racist or just as negative a swastika I would not have said it gave off a positive message. Since when does hijab signify anything except; A. a supposed sanction by God or B. a choice made by a woman of her own free will? Both of which we can grant are positive.

You missed option C. a choice forced on women or else they get beaten up, shunned by those around them or worse, killed.

What do you call getting beaten for not properly covered up? What do you call forcing girls back into a burning building for not wearing hijabs? How about 'honor' killings which happen because women adopt western clothings and not properly covered up? You can try to play word games, but it does not change the fact that women are abused and killed because of hijabs and Islamic clothings. Hence hijabs symbolize women oppression (not racism, I never said that, BTW). Hijabs will lose that association when women can freely not wear it.

Perhaps you are familiar with Ni Putes, Ni Soumises.
Quote:
Amara is firmly opposed to the wearing of the veil in public schools, a stance that has generated friction among activist Muslim organizations, some of whom see the headscarf as an issue of identity. Some French feminists also back the wearing of the veil.

“You must consider, the veil, for me, is not a religious symbol. It is a symbol of the submission of women in a patriarchal society with a tribal function. … The veil is what creates the separation of the sexes and draws the line that separates equality of rights,” Amara said.


J. Hernandez wrote:
And imagine if a man was to force a woman to eat pizza's and this happened to be publicized would we all start saying pizza is wrong? Pizza is an ever lasting sign of oppression? And all who choose to eat this abhorrible food should be launched feet first into the deepest hole one can dig, while they gobble down their cheese infested demonic dish? Such preposterous ideas are dangerous and the fact that a supposed rationalist like yourself happens to be propounding them speaks volumes in regards to who's mind is closed and vice versa.

Except that it is a man forcing a woman in a one unique case. Futhermore, pizza is a food which has nutitional value. Moreover, the motive for forcing a woman to eat pizza is unclear. It's also likely that the women likes eating pizza since it tastes good. In fact, it's good enough that men eat it too.

Your analogy should be like this:
A group of people forcing another group of people to wear a badge of yellow star. The yellow star wearers were identified by the badge as inferior beings. If they refused to wear the yellow badge, they could be killed on the spot. Is the yellow star badge a sign of oppression?

The second part of your analogy makes no sense at all. Who advocates that all who choose to wear hijabs should be launched feet first into the deepest hole one can dig? "However you seemed to have made up a conversation between you and I where I spuriously sanctioned" pusnishment for wearing hijabs, "perhaps you can supply a brief outline of what transpired because it has completely slipped my mind."

Shall I repeat my statement:
Ajax wrote:
Lastly, no one here advocates assaulting or discriminating women for wearing hijabs. Why do you claim so? We see them as victims of Islamic oppression. Why should we make it even worse for them by assaulting or discriminating against them?


J. Hernandez wrote:
You then assume all muslim women who are not forced to wear hijab, are conviently brainwashed my goodness you must think very little of women to suppose that some arabic hocus pocus would actually deprive them of their senses to the point that they would conform to a dress code that is just soooo oppressive. I know ample muslim women, some students, some teachers most of which were raised as full fledged westerners and who were taught to think much like yourself yet they choose to cover up. The reason I have heard is most popular is that God has sanctioned it to make sure they are known and respected as muslim women, others have nice little poetic justifications such as "I am like a pearl in its shell". Either way its their body hence it is their choice, and claiming it is an everlasting scar of oppression shows that your knowledge is infinitesmal on the topic.

And you don't call that brainwashing, that they can't be sure to be respected if they don't wear hijabs? That they can't feel beautiful if they are not protected by the shell?

This discussion is about wearing a hijab not as a fashion statement. I don't dismiss the fact that some women have different tastes and perhaps some actually likes wearing a head cover on occassion. However, that means at other times, they don't wear hijabs. Here we are talking about wearing hijabs at all time, including wearing Islamic swimsuits that have built-in hijabs or women wearing hijabs and burqas on the beach while their men have fun in the sun. When it gets too uncomfortable to wear them and yet the women feel obligated to wear them, do you still think women wear it because they like it?

J. Hernandez wrote:
Next you twisted my statement, logically only positive clothing can only have a positive effect on society I even explained the positive message that I have seen hijab give off, hence it is your own imagination which has inferred two additional premises to tail my sentence. If I say medicine always has a positive affect will you then demand that I supply the cure for aids? Grow up, however if I must I will rearrange my sentence so as not to provoke irrational imaginations "Positive expression through clothing always has a positive effect upon society" sheesh. Next I never said I didnt view women who do not wear hijab as I do those who happen to wear it, I simply stated that women who wear hijab give off in my expierence a certain message so where exactly does this imply that women who do not wear hijab do not? Considering this is a topic on hijab isnt it obvious why I commentated solely on this style of dress? Can you explain how via semmantics or pure rationality how you get the second premiss from my statement?

Where did you mention positive expressions? Did I miss it?
J. Hernandez wrote:
I am for Hijab I think it is wonderful I mean expression through clothing has always had a positive effect on society, just like I love my "hecho en Mexico" T-shirt and creased khakis these women love their hijab.

You can rearrange your statement, but the argument I posed is based on the actual statement you wrote. Furthermore, the message you speak of ignores the fact that women are abused and oppressed because of hijab, so always equating hijabs with positive expressions is false.

Once again your analogy misses the mark. If you say
"If I say medicine always has a positive affect will you then demand that I supply the cure for aids?"
I will point out to you that medicine does not always have a positive effect. It's be stupid to say such a generalization because we know that medicine sometimes has negative side effects. It'd be equally stupid to try to confuse that medicine always having a positive effect with the existence of the cure for AIDS.

J. Hernandez wrote:
With your ending comments, pure speculation in regards to how you have portrayed me that is; in all reality I havent said anything like that which you attribute to me, so but natural your conclusion is as erreneous as your opening. One giant post consisting of 98% pure ad hoc.

Errr... let see. I wonder who wrote
Quote:
Ajax you didnt make any sense so "Jabba jubba jabbada" to you to my disgruntled friend. Damn I am craving some candies
in the first place? That is a very logical argument, isn't it?
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Goku



Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Posts: 4449
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 3:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Goku is already 6 months here Reply with quote

Anna Doe wrote:

You are right, she can be married before that, mohamed married Aisha 3 years before she got her menses. Because she was more intelligent than him, could remember the koran, and could write it down. Well I wonder why allah didn't choose Aisha as his prophet. Is he mysogyn as mohamed was? Or again mohamed the mysogy invented a mysogyn god.

Does that make it OK to marry young girls now?

Quote:
Now you say "not really" can you bring us the proove a girl with menses cannot get married? Can you bring us the proove a girl without menses cannot get married? I don't know, I ask the muslim (go ask your imam but don't say the question is from here, because he will forbid you to come here of course, just ask "By the way, I heard in Afganistan this girl got married at 10. What the koran says about that?). Whatever is not written in the koran, is halal. It is forbidden to marry mother, sister, daughter and so on... it is not written it is forbidden to marry a 6 year old or a 98 years old. Therefore it is halal if the parents agree.

Qur'an: 4:19: "O ye who believe! Ye are forbidden to marry women against their will.



Quote:

What do you mean? Is it a ad wominem fallacy ? Are you suggesting someone is having her menses?
What is the problem, is my brain not working because I have the capacity to bring life?
Are you in this affirming mohamed's claims that women have half men's intellectual? Because the menses make them spiny?

Because you are making such a HUUUGE issue of heresay.


Quote:

[color=indigo]No mohamed asked them to wear it. As they are completely brainwashed they don't think critically and will do everything for mohamed, even blowing themselves in a supermarket full of families shoping for the week-end.

Where does Muhammad (P) tell people to blow themselves up in supermarkets?

Quote:


And anyway as usual when the koran speaks about people, men or women, it speaks about muslims. All the others are called infidels or people of the Book.

Arent there any non-Muslim women?

Quote:
Therefore infidels can be married against their will

No.

Quote:

you just need to enslave them (koran for all time?!!! Goku wake up!) and if they are married to kill the husband, like mohamed did to Safia and to many others.
http://islam.tc/ask-imam/view.php?q=10896 [/color]

O ye who believe! Stand out firmly For justice, as witnesses To Allah, even as against Yourselves, or your parents, Or your kin, and whether It be (against) rich or poor: For Allah can best protect both. Follow not the lusts (Of your hearts), lest ye Swerve, and if ye Distort (justice) or decline To do justice, verily Allah is well-acquainted With all that ye do. (The Noble Quran, 4:135)"

Let those who find not the wherewithal for marriage keep themselves chaste, until God gives them means out of His grace. And if any of your slaves ask for a deed in writing (to enable them to earn their freedom for a certain sum), give them such a deed if ye know any good in them: yea, give them something yourselves out of the means which God has given to you. But force not your maids to prostitution when they desire chastity, in order that ye may make a gain in the goods of this life. But if anyone compels them, yet, after such compulsion, is God, Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful (to them), (The Noble Quran, 24:33)"


Quote:
In the "Jihads" (Islamic wars) that took place, women were also, at times, taken as prisoners of war by the Muslim warriors. These women captives used to be distributed as part of the booty among the soldiers, after their return to Islamic territory. Each soldier was then entitled to have relations ONLY with the slave girl over whom he was given the RIGHT OF OWNERSHIP and NOT with those slave girls that were not in his possession. This RIGHT OF OWNERSHIP was given to him by the "Ameerul-Mu'mineen" (Head of the Islamic state.) Due to this right of ownership, it became lawful for the owner of a slave girl to have intercourse with her.

The slaves were given rights and people were ordered to treat them well.


Quote:

It may, superficially, appear distasteful to copulate with a woman who is not a man's legal wife, but once Shariah makes something lawful, we have to accept it as lawful, whether it appeals to our taste, or not; and whether we know its underlying wisdom or not. It is necessary for a Muslim to be acquainted with the laws of Shariah, but it is not necessary for him to delve into each law in order to find the underlying wisdom of these laws because knowledge of the wisdom of some of the laws may be beyond his puny comprehension. Allah Ta'ala has said in the Holy
Quraan: "Wa maa ooteetum min al-ilm illaa qaleelan" which means, more or less, that, "You have been given a very small portion of knowledge". Hence, if a person fails to comprehend the underlying wisdom of any law of Shariah, he cannot regard it as a fault of Shariah (Allah forbid), on the contrary, it is the fault of his own perception and lack of understanding, because no law of Shariah is contradictory to wisdom.

I have not studied Sharia Law.

Quote:

Nevertheless, the wisdom underlying the permission granted by Shariah to copulate with a slave woman is as follows: The LEGAL possession that a Muslim receives over a slave woman from the "Ameerul-Mu'mineen" (the Islamic Head of State) gives him legal credence to have coition with the slave woman in his possession, just as the marriage ceremony gives him legal credence to have coition with his wife. In other words, this LEGAL POSSESSION is, in effect, a SUBSTITUTE of the MARRIAGE CEREMONY. A free woman cannot be 'possessed', bought or sold like other possessions; therefore Shariah instituted a 'marriage ceremony' in which affirmation and consent takes place, which gives a man the right to copulate with her. On the other hand, a slave girl can be possessed and even bought and sold, thus, this right of possession, substituting as a marriage ceremony, entitles the owner to copulate with her. A similar example can be found in the slaughtering of animals; that after a formal slaughtering process, in which the words, "Bismillahi Allahu Akbar" are recited, goats, cows, etc.; become "Halaal" and lawful for consumption, whereas fish becomes "Halaal" merely through 'possession' which substitutes for the slaughtering.
In other words, just as legal possession of a fish that has been fished out of the water, makes it Halaal for human consumption without the initiation of a formal slaughtering process; similarly legal possession of a slave woman made her Halaal for the purpose of coition with her owner without the initiation of a formal marriage ceremony.

And the views of one person are so important?

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In short, permission to have intercourse with a slave woman was not something barbaric or uncivilised; on the contrary, it was almost as good as a marriage ceremony.

Only if the slave girl gives her permission.

...

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Similarly, if a slave woman was married previously in enemy territory to a non-Muslim, and is then captured alone, i.e. without her husband, it is not permissible for any Muslim to have relations with her until her previous marriage is nullified, and that is done by bringing her to an Islamic country and making her the legal possession of a Muslim. Bringing her into Islamic territory necessitates the rendering of her previous marriage as null and void by Islamic law because with her husband in enemy territory and she in Islamic territory, it becomes virtually impossible for them to meet and live as man and wife. That is why it is not permissible to have intercourse with a woman whose husband is also taken into captivity and put into slavery with her.

...

With all these similarities it does not make sense to regard copulation with a slave woman distasteful whilst copulation with one's wife is not regarded as distasteful.

A question that may still arise is that why does the owner of a slave woman not marry her before having relations with her? Well, this is impracticable because of a few intricate technicalities. Firstly, we know that a man has to give "Mahr" (dower-money) to his bride. The Holy Quran says:-

[ A r a b i c ]
Trans: "And allowed unto you is whatsoever is beyond that, so that ye may seek them with your substance (i.e. with your dower-money)(4:24).

Thus, "Mahr" is a conditional prerequisite of Nikaah. If a man has to marry his slave woman, it would not be possible for him to abide by this condition of 'Mahr' because by Islamic law, a slave does not have rights over any property, i.e. she cannot own anything. In fact, whatever she has with her too, i.e. her clothing, etc., is all regarded as the property of her owner. Therefore, If he gets married to his slave girl and gives her the 'Mahr' she cannot become the owner of it because she has no right of ownership. The 'Mahr' would bounce back to the owner of the slave girl and it would tantamount to giving the 'Mahr' to himself. Hence, the owner would become the payer as well as the PAYEE of the 'Mahr' which would only result in the mockery of the whole system of 'Mahr'. It would be absolutely superfluous to have such a marriage ceremony performed that makes a mockery of the 'Mahr' system. Hence, the owner cannot get married to her while she remains a slave girl. However, if he sets her free, then he can get married to her on the basis of her having become a liberated woman.

Although the owner himself cannot get married to his slave woman, without giving her freedom, he can get her married to someone else. If he gets her married to someone else, then only her husband can now have intercourse with her and the owner's right of having intercourse with her comes to an end. All these facts prove that the slave girl does not become an instrument of sex; on the contrary, her honour is upheld, in that only one man is allowed to have intercourse with her JUST AS only one man (the husband) is allowed to have intercourse with his lawfully wedded wife.

Islam ensured that the slave girl's duties were not restricted merely to domestic chores but also gave her master permission to copulate with her. This concession created an atmosphere of love and harmony between the slave girl and her master. Islam thereby raised the status of the war captive-maidens close to that of wives. It was a psychological cure to her grief-stricken heart, being deprived of her family and thrown into the hands of a strange society.

...

In fact, Rasulullah Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam himself possessed slave girls. In this way, he was able to demonstrate practically how kindly and politely the slave should be treated. Because it is relevant to the topic, it would be appropriate to mention here that Rasulullah Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam also had four slave girls. One was Hazrat Maria Qibtiyya Radhiallahu Anha who was the mother of Rasulullah Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam's son, Ibrahim Alayhis Salaam who passed away in infanthood. The others were, Hazrat Rayhaan binte Samoon; Hazrat Nafisa and a fourth, whose name has not been recorded in History.

So I gather, slave girls are allowed for marriage.


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What are you a koran only muslim?

I am not. I accept Hadith too.

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Many hadith and the sunnah show muslims can marry underage girls

Again Aisha was 6 year old..


Isn't it underaged?

Does it say anywhere we gotta marry underage girls?

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I don't have irrational fear of islam. All my fears about islam are founded on reason: logic, history, free thinking, criticism. Did you watch a beheading Goku? How a man of god, a good guy, a model for mankind can demand and watch some 800 beheadings of men and teenagers in one day. Can you imagine the cries, shouting, pains, fears, blood, disgust, piuking of victims and beheaders?

Thats been discussed at length.

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How a prophet of god can be that mercyfull lacking? Even nazis commited suicide when they couldn't suppress the psychological dissonnance comming from some basic humanity that should be in every one and the acts they were demanded to perform?

He was merciful to his enemies. The Qur'an says dont stat aggressive wars. At the conquest of Mecca he forgave his fiercest enemies.

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When war will come Goku, will you kill your ennemy by bullets or by beheading them with you own arms?

How long has this site been around? A few years? I joined a few months ago and I hear a lot of talk on a war with Muslims, a war in the future etc. Such pessimism.


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Will you kill halaly or infidely?

Are killings necessary?

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Will you be mohamedan or will the infidel teachings you learned in England make you abbhor the religion of peace at least? Not by our warnings but by the horror reality that will happen?

Muhammadan is the term used by people who dont have any credibility so they think its a good insult to call Muslims Muhammadans.

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How beheading could be the most humane killing? How an omniscient and mercyfull god would ever ask humans to kill that way?

I prefer to be stolen of everything I have than having the thief's hands and feet cut.

Lets put that in a real case scenario.

Recently in England, a convicted robber was out on parole. One day, he and a mate of his dressed up as postmen and went into a fairly rich banker's house. They forced their way into the house with the intent to steal, and ended up killing the banker. The naker was married with 2 young kids. The wife had to watch the horror of the barberic theives as they knifed her husband, the young kids watched from a distance as their father was mercilessly stabbed. Why? Because he was successful in life. I ask you, how do you think those poor little kids are feeling? They lost a loving and kind father. How does the wife feel? She lost her husband, for what reason? Because a convicted theif wished to strike again.

If that merciless theif had his hand cut off, the poor banker would be alive today. Those 2 young kids would be with their beloved father, a women would not have been widowed. Can you imagine the devistating effect that man's loss of life had on his young children and his wife?

Which would you prefer, a merciless criminal having his hand cut off, or letting him go, with the consquences being him killing an innocent life and devistating his victim's young children and wife? Well???


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[color=indigo]It is a joke right? To say these sites are refuting us is as stupid as to say these sites are prooving jinns exist and one is sleeping in your left nostril every night.

Maybe you should visit that site, they have refuted this site and answering-islam.

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By the way, Goku, do you blow your nose in the morning to drive the jinn away? Are you using a handkerchief or doing it the muslim way with your fingers? Because I became a jinn rights activist after realizing muslims are squeezing to death millions of jinns every morning when they blow their nose with a handkerchief. Again a proof that islam IS an arabic religion: islam don't want to kill the jinn and you don't kill the jinn if you blow your nose with your finger, but you will kill the poor jinn if you use an handkerchief. Poor jinns, how many were aspyxied, how many died unable to feed themselves because muslims have made them paralyzed by squeezing them in the green stuff sticked to the paper.

Riiight... I dont think like that.

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WHAT! You are a muslim and you didn't finish the koran and most of us infidels did!

Im getting there.

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You sure like the Meccan verses. Just wait until you learn about the abrogations and the loving Medina verses!

Arent the Meccan verses part of the Quran?

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The verses telling you to abstain from evil and do good and be righteous are not existing only in the koran. They exist in almost all religions and first of all, they exist in every decent human. There is no need for religions to abstain from evil, do good, be righteous. You can do that with or without god. But if people need religions to be good, let's have a religion that won't make them barbars like islam did, does but won't do anymore because we will stop it, we have no choice. If we don't succeed, all the world will be like Afganistand and Saudia.

allah doesn't love the muslims doing unjust things to muslims. If they do that to infidels, it is ok. This prooves allah is good only for the muslims, like hitler is good only to the nazis.

No.

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You should believe Ali Sina and co. because you should abstain from evil, do good and be righteous. But most, you should believe FFI because we are supporting our claims with your own scriptures and with reason.

I should believe someone who is too unwilling to have a vocal debate? I give answering-islam more credibility than FFI and answering islam have been throughly refuted by answering-christianity and other sites.

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Those who respect islam, don't know a thing about islam. If you know a few tell them to come here so they can teach us why we should respect islam too.

You just have to spend time at other places than FFI.

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Those who convert don't know anything about islam and worse, they were brainwashed by a embellish version that exist only for the gullible westerners. After a while they lost so much their humanity and free thinking that like you they follow a pedophil and claim he was a prophet of god. Please if you know other reverts , tell them to come here so they can teach us about the true religion.

I think you should go to them. www.islamicboard.com is a good start.

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But you are afraid to tell them. Because they might see the truth. If you weren't afraid, they would have been here all the friends of xxx, all the friends of Goku, all the friends of jihadjedi, all the friend of masadi and so on... But no, you are hidding faithfreedom.org. You are censoring our link.

I am not going to advertise for FFI.

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COWARDS!

LoL.


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[color=indigo]An informed muslim is someone who knows and accept mohamed put his penis in a 9 y. old little girl's vagina and established this pedophilic customs for the whole umma and all time, demanded and watched the beheading of 800 men and teenagers (in think in ONE day), rape slaves, demanded his own adopted son to divorce his wife so he can marry her and for that came up with a verse that allah forbid adoption, demanded the killing of apostates and dissidents, demanded the foot and hand of a thief to be cut, allowed men to beat their disobedient wives, allow society to cut the clitoris and lips of unwilling girls and so on... and accept that islam has to rule the world as the sole religion.

You are making big issue out of heresay. Did Muhammad (P) have any other relations with young girls other than Aisha?

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After 6 months Goku, you are informed of all these things and still see mohamed as a good man, model for mankind and prophet of god. You have lost your innocence for me, you want to force your cult on me and all the world therefore you are my ennemy. I will fight you to protect myself.

Come come its not right to fight with ladies you know.

But seriously, when did I want to force my Religion on you? You see why i think you're an Islamophobe? You think any Muslim is out to get you.


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If you don't think these things, you are not a true muslim. You just invented your own religion through the remnant of your humanity. In this case, there is hope. Please read your koran, please read islamic texts with humanity and reason.

Do it for your children and our children.

You lot have invented your own Islam to try and dissude us from the Truth.

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[color=indigo]Actually you are the first one. I said those thing to Miss Ruby but I just invented my first FFI-fatwa a couple of days ago. I should write something about it and begin my list in a new thread with a link to this thread so people can understand my definition of informed and uninformed muslim
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23262

~_^

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Don't you support mohamed sunnah? You support pedophily because you think mohamed is a good guy and a model for all mankind.
You are following the cult of a pedophil.

You know the 54 year old mohamed raped Aisha when she was 9 year old, but you think it is ok/halal because he got married to her when she was 6? How is that making is ok? How is that not pedophily!!!

Did Muhammad (P) have any relitions with any other young girl apart from Aisha?

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Please Goku, what is a pedophil?

Someone who lusts after any pre pubercesnt young girls or boys, has an obsession with them, keeps nasty pictures of them and assults them repeatedly, even kills them, until he or she is stopped.

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This is the problem with islam, there is no marital rape because when you are married rape is ok/halal and there is no pedohily because when you are married 9 year old is not a issue.

No. In Islam we are to love our wives and put their needs before us, Alhumdulillah.

Muhamamd (P) said:
"The best of you are those who considers the needs of others and his wife before his"

I cant remember the exact Hadith number but I can dig it up for you if you wish.


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[color=indigo]Rape, pedophilia, murder, thievery, slavery, lie are halal if they are done in the same situations as mohamed did those things in his life, sunnah.

Therefore, it is not rape if you are married or if the girl is your slave (taken during jihad or bought or enherit).
Therefore, It is not pedohily if you are married to the child.
Therefore, It is not murder if it is done to an infidel whose country you are in war with. We westerners have created laws to protect civils during wars. But civils in islam have no rights because the 7th century mohamed didn't know this concept although allah is omniscient and the koran for all time and places. So civils are beheaded and their women and children enslave.
Therefore, It is not stealing if it is done for dawa (islam evangelism) or to help muslims fight the infidels.
Therefore, It is not slavery because if the slave convert to islam, the owner free him.
Therefore, It is not lying because it is done to make islam the only religion on earth or done to make gullible convert...

No. You are very misinformed.

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And about jihad, first I know jihad as only one meaning, to fight the infidels. But let's say your embellish-for-the-westerner definitions are true: are you that brainwashed poor Goku? Do you remember the muslim who drive his SUV in the crowd? Do you remember those muslims killing more than 3000 persons on 9.11? Do you remember those palestinian suicide bombers who are blowing themselves in pizerias and discotheques? and so on...
How were these crimes making those muslims better men or self-defence?
Why are they attacking civilians, included women, kids and elderly?
Why aren't they attacking military bases and soldiers?
Because a part of the real jihad (not your takyya definitions) is to terrorize the infidels so they will surrender to islam
.

I cant help what other people do.

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So who is the true muslim the one who practice the fundamentals or the one who pick only what he likes and can tolere?

example:
Please answer this set of questions:

One who knows Islam in depth and practices it properly.

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Are you able to abstain from evil?

Yea.

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Are you able to do good?

Yes.
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Are you able to be righteous?

Yes, Insha'Allah.

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Are you able to give?

Yes

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Are you able to let people who don't follow your religion live?

Yes, of course.

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Are you able to not steal?

Yes.

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Are you able to be mercyfull?

Yes

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Are you able to not cheat?

Yes.


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YES, congratulation, you are a good person. What is your religion?

Alhumdulillah. And also a good Muslim. My religon is Islam where all that is applicable.

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Are you able to cut the hand and feet of a thief?

Personally, no.

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Are you able to give you 6 year old daughter to mohamed's penis?

Muhammad (P) is dead.

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Are you able to cut the head of a human being?

No.

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Are you able to beat your disobedient wife?

I dont have a wife. But if I do in the future, I aim for a loving relitionship where we will be best friends, support each other in happiness and grief, and share our sorrows and happiness with each other. stick together in peace and love always. No, I dont want to beat my wife or treat her badly.

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Are you able to enslave a girl and rape her?

No.
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Are you able to stole for mohamed?

Muhammad (P) is dead.

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Are you able to lie for mohamerde?

Muhammad (P) is dead.

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Are you able to give only to the poor muslims or to the poor non-muslims you are trying to convert?

I have never differentaied on where my money given to charity should go, except they should go to the poor and needy. The more we spend helping our fellow humans, the more we will be rewarded by Allah. Moresoever, I have been taught that we should not give to charity just to brag about it to others or get people to think highly of us, we should do it for the sake of Allah and to help those in need. Such is the beauty of Islam.


[quote]
YES, hamdulila, you are a good muslim, you follow islam's fundamentals, allah loves you, you will go to paradise and get your whores!
NO, you are a bad muslim, a moderate, allah is angry, you will go to hell and burn for eternity until embrace islam and respond YES to all these questions.

o.O

No...

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You are not a moderate
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23262
A moderate is an uninformed muslim because he is ignorant of the real mohamed and islam. When he learned the truth, he has two choice:
1) leave the barbaric cult
who promote supremacism, killing of apostates and dissidents, enslaving, pedophily, murder, lying, stealing... because his humanity and moderation can't stand these, or
2) accept the barbaries of his cult and by so is not a moderate anymore. A moderated person cannot accept barbaries of the past, he will try to modernize, reform his faith, like all religions have done because their followers demanded it.

You have invented your own Islam.


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You can call it a personnal attack if you want, but I think these things on all muslims who accept the fact that mohamed can put his penis in Aisha and still be a model for all mankind. You are a zombie because you don't want to grasp the meaning of this acceptation, i.e. mohamed was a pedophil and you are a pedophil follower. You are disturbed because you think god could choose such a criminal. You are dangerous because as soon as you agree mohamed the pedophil is a model for mankind and a prophet of god, you can agree that infidels have to be beheaded and you can go and help the palestinians and blow yourself in a pre-school.

Utter rubbish.

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Tell me why the follower of a leader* who is a pedophil, a rapist, a enslaver, a mass-killer, a torturer, a liar and thief can't be dangerous?

* mohamed in our case

Because he was not that.

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You have invented your own islam.

Please finish your koran, read the sunnah and all the authenticated hadiths.
Aren't the koran verses recited by terrorist not from the same koran that you study?
Aren't allah the same god they praise when they cut their victims 15 cm circumference neck?
Isn't islam of Saudia and Afganistan the same islam you know and love?
Isn't islam of Ben Laden and Abu Hamza and those of hamas and hizbolah the same islam that the one you know and love?
What is the true islam? Goku's or Zarkawi's?
Who is the true mohamed? The mohamed loved by terrorists or the mohamed loved by Goku's?

Haha its you who's invented your own Islam under the guidence of Ali Sinner.

[quote]Please do a test: during a month or so, give the impression to some bearded muslims that you want to learn more about islam. And check if their koran is not the same that you read, check if mohamed didn't do more things that you know, check why they are fundamentalists and why they think a women without a hijjab is asking to be rape and more... And tell us, I would like to know because I was told that there is only one koran and that mohamed sunnah is the way to go to please the good allah.

I can ask away to local Imams or Imams on the internet.


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By being a muslim (good or bad) you are faciliting the growth of islam's strenght in bringing sharia to our countries, in bringing mosques who preach hatred to the muslims, in bringing honnor killings, burkas, bringing underaged marriages, bringing terrorists who hide their weapon in the house of allah and live from our tax money until they decide to blow a few of us and so...

No Im not.

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I am not islamophobe because my fears are rational. I know islamic history. I know that in the koran, I should be forced to convert or killed. I know that in muslim countries, this is happening. I know that infidels woman and girls are raped by the thousands because they are non-muslims. I know what is the sharia. I know what is education for women. I know all from my reading in islamic sites, hearing what is going on in Thailand or Kashmir, reading the koran and so on...

Well you think any Muslim is out to get you, so you are an Islamophobe.

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So real islam is to marry little girl and rape them at 9?
So real islam is to have sex slaves?
So real islam is to convert the infidels?
So real islam is giving alms only to the muslims?
This real islam is not coming only from Saudia or Afganistan, it is coming from the life of mohamed sunnah, it is coming from the koran itself, and as it is word of god, they can't be changed, reformed, modernized, moderated, smoothed..

No
Convert through Dawah
Poor and needy
Qur'an and Sunnah


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[color=indigo]muslimah have their clitoris removed. muslimah shouldn't study because they are to breed and wait the husband. muslimah has to be kept under tent to not arouse the beast in muslims. muslimah's testimonies are half of a muslim. (muslimah's testimony are equal to a non-muslim testimony!) muslimah can receive only half of their brother. muslimah can be beaten if they are disobedient. muslimah should be happy to share their husband with 3 other muslimas and as many sex slaves and concubines that the budget allows. muslimas have to accept their husband's penis even on a camel's saddle.

How am I riciculous to think islam is threatening my daughter's future when I know what rights and duties islam give to its muslimah?

Because you said I personally am threteaning your daughter, which is utter rubbish because I have no idea who you are and I dont go round threteaning people.

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you don't practice the real islam so you are not threatening by practicing your made-up religion, but by allowing the real true muslims to practice their real true islam, yes.

But anyway the "you" is of course for "you, muslims"

I am not responsible for wot other people do.

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You are not one man army, you are a member of a group that wants to impose sharia and conquer the world and impose islam on all (except those lucky surviving dhimmis who will be able to ransom their lives and pseudo-freedom).

You can't do it, but as a group yes. How do you think islam conquered half the world, with one muslim? No with an army of muslims.

No.

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Another thing the bearded fundamentalists are not doing right? I disagree. Backbiting is ok if it is for the cause of the jihad. Everything is halal if done for the cause of islam.

O_o No and no and no.

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Fighters fight soldiers. I have no logical problem with them.

All the rest, who blow themselves among civilians, in a mosque or in a discotheque, who behead journalists, who rape non-muslims because they are non-muslims, who hit in the face a 6 year old because she walked on their prayer rug and so on... are terrorists.

I dont agree with them either.


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It was a word typo. I did a long post and I am not perfect like mohamed who never made any mistake like Jesus' mother Mary is Isac's sister or mathematical or scientifical mistakes and so on...
Do you believe shooting stars are missiles chasing 2 milimeters jinns?
This is not telling you that islam is non-sense?

Personally I dont care if shooting stars go after jinns, its their problem.

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Decent men. Men who are not pedophil followers. Not wives beaters. Not enslavers. Not beheaders. Not torturers. Not liars. Not thieves.

Uh huh.

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We decent men

You decent men? Are you a man?

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are arguing with god when god is talking non-sense, is immoral, barbaric, archaic and obviously not omnipotient and not omniscient.
god should be good. He cannot torture. He cannot apologize for a leecher. He cannot allow pedophily and so on..
allah is the anti-god
I am an atheist, for me allah is anti-humanity.

Thats wot you feel.

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How a gentle god could choose his last prophet in a pedophil warior? Only satan would.

You are takings things to far extreme measures not supported by Islam.

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By sadique, you meant sadist, right?
Or he was really good and a nice guy before his prophethood but after it, HE REALLY CHANGED.

Saique is Arabic, it means righteous and truthful or something along those lines.

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So you do believe hadith. When you feel it, you choose only those who depict mohamed as good. WHAT WITH ALL THE OTHERS AHADITH WHO DEPICT MOHAMED AS EVIL?

You are inventing your own religion pal.

Well, I finished to read the hadith you gave above. It doesn't mean anything. What is the wisdom? Don't look for it. and don't bring me the hadith, lost of time. How this hadith is saying something important that i should know. Some guys believe mohamed never lie. May be they lie. Where is the hadith saying these guys never lie?

Fabricated hadiths.

[quote]

I have a better hadith who says something
What is the Difference between a camels and a woman?
None and poo does the same benediction on both.

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Book 11, Number 2155: Bukhari
Narrated Abdullah ibn Amr ibn al-'As:
The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: If one of you marries a woman or buys a slave, he should say: "O Allah, I ask Thee for the good in her, and in the disposition Thou hast given her; I take refuge in Thee from the evil in her, and in the disposition Thou hast given her." When he buys a camel, he should take hold of the top of its hump and say the same kind of thing.

Um, its just a dua.

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Oh we have a lot of news about your prophet. But you have to read your own scriptures. You claim is a good guy so check what islam says about him. READ YOUR SCRIPTURES!!!

Someone else provided so called evicdnce that we cant adopt but all that verse said was adopted children are not our blood children, which is right.

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mohamed enter his adoptive son Zayed's house. He sees Zainab, Zayed’s wife, cleaning her body, he has an erection. Later he goes to the mountain and come back with a koranic verse to suit his situation, he is still hard so he just want to marry her :
033.004
YUSUFALI: Allah has not made for any man two hearts in his (one) body: nor has He made your wives whom ye divorce by Zihar your mothers: nor has He made your adopted sons your sons. Such is (only) your (manner of) speech by your mouths. But Allah tells (you) the Truth, and He shows the (right) Way.

If your adopted son is not your real son OF COURSE YOU CAN MARRY AND HAVE SEX WITH HIS DIVORCED WIFE. BECAUSE IF HE WASN"T YOUR REAL SON, HIS WIFE WASN"T YOUR REAL DAUGHTER!!!

Actually there were problems with the marriage of Zainab and Zaid, which led to their divorce. The Prophet (PBUH) was blamed partly because hde set up their marriage, so he offered himself in marriage.

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How do you know if you are going to heaven? I don't think you are a good muslim. See the result of your test!

But really will the houris wear burkas ? And the muslima? This is very important, if everybody can have sex and eat haram and drink haram, so there won't be need of the burka. Or is this paradise only for men like the earth?

I am not worried about wot we wont and will get in Paradise, nobody knows for certain. paradise is beyond our imaginations.

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cant you tell from the pictures the girls and women are wearing the Hijaab of their own free will?

Looks like all of them.
_________________
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Anna Doe



Joined: 25 Dec 2005
Posts: 2745
Location: Somewhere on the spheric kafir earth, vaccinating people against islam

PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 5:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Goku is already 6 months here Reply with quote

Thank you to at least try to respond to me.

Goku, not one fact proving me wrong!

Where is your logic, your free-thinking, your critical thinking? How can you don't understand my post and worst, answer with nothing. Don't you have nothing critical and logic to answer me? Isn't there a hole in my thinking? How come?

Because I say the truth
, mohamed was a pedophil and he established marriage to pre-teens to millions of poor muslimas.

and so on...

So easy to debate with you!!! But as usual with muslims, it takes time to explain to you the most simple and humane things, that even a child can pick up. But your brainwashing and blind love to mohamed and blind fear to his hell had completely atrophy your criticism. Following are nevetheless, my answers to you:


Goku wrote:
Anna Doe wrote:

You are right, she can be married before that, mohamed married Aisha 3 years before she got her menses. Because she was more intelligent than him, could remember the koran, and could write it down. Well I wonder why allah didn't choose Aisha as his prophet. Is he mysogyn as mohamed was? Or again mohamed the mysogy invented a mysogyn god.

Does that make it OK to marry young girls now?

Yes, because islam is built (was created) like that:
1)
- all what allah said is ok and
- all what allah didn't say it was not ok and
- all what did mohamed
is halal (good, legal).
2)
- all what allah forbid and
- all what mohamed forbid
is haram (no good, no legal).

All the rest is permitted or not forbidden. PERIOD.

Well Allah never said not to marry little girls. He only said not to marry your mother, daughter, sister and so on...

And mohamed marry Aisha when she was 6.

Therefore it is halal to marry little girls.[/color]

Goku wrote:
Quote:
[color=indigo]Now you say "not really" can you bring us the proove a girl with menses cannot get married? Can you bring us the proove a girl without menses cannot get married? I don't know, I ask the muslim (go ask your imam but don't say the question is from here, because he will forbid you to come here of course, just ask "By the way, I heard in Afganistan this girl got married at 10. What the koran says about that?). Whatever is not written in the koran, is halal. It is forbidden to marry mother, sister, daughter and so on... it is not written it is forbidden to marry a 6 year old or a 98 years old. Therefore it is halal if the parents agree.

Qur'an: 4:19: "O ye who believe! Ye are forbidden to marry women against their will.


A 6 year old child is not a women.
Her parents said it was ok (well the prophet himself wants the child, oh, it is not only in islam sadly, it happens in other cults) and a little child don't know she can and should say no. She cannot understand the difference between wrong and good. Her parents should tell her. A real prophet should tell her, a real god should tell her.
Well her parents were stupid and bribed.
The prophet was a pedophil.
allah was the invented god of this pedophil.
She doesn't know what marriage is nor rape or sex. She plays with dolls and was swinging a swing just before being molested and raped!
How can you say it wasn't against her will?
A 6 year old only will is to play and eat ice cream and cookies.

GOKU ! WAKE UP !
What are you saying? Imagine a little girl victim of an incest. Would you say she is willing what her horror daddy does to her because she let him do it ??? I hope you do not. A child don't know to say no when she is told by the rapist pedophil or in Aisha's case, told by everyone, that it is ok.


Goku wrote:
Quote:
What do you mean? Is it a ad wominem fallacy ? Are you suggesting someone is having her menses?
What is the problem, is my brain not working because I have the capacity to bring life?
Are you in this affirming mohamed's claims that women have half men's intellectual? Because the menses make them spiny?

Because you are making such a HUUUGE issue of heresay.

What hearsay?

Your response is no response.

All religions are hearsay. Did allah talked to you lately, did mohamed sent you a fax? Of course not. All relgions are hearsay, included islam's koran, hadiths, sunnah. Well centuries ago, muslims decided what scriptures are authentic. YOU CAN'T CHANGE THAT. Aisha was married when she was 6 and raped when she was 9. It has been authenticated by your cult leaders. WAKE UP!


Goku wrote:
Quote:
No mohamed asked them to wear it. As they are completely brainwashed they don't think critically and will do everything for mohamed, even blowing themselves in a supermarket full of families shoping for the week-end.

Where does Muhammad (P) tell people to blow themselves up in supermarkets?

Well supermarkets didn't exist then nor bomb belt. But he did told them to behead men and teens. As today's civilians are saw as soldiers or future soldiers or mothers or future mothers of soldiers against allah and islam, imams, sheiks are brainwashing kids and men and send them to their death by blowing themselves among civilians.
Who know better Ben Laden or Goku? Abu Hamza or GOku? The taliban or GOku? CAIR or Goku? muslim brotherhood or GOku?

Who they are praising when they prepare for martyrdom? allah and mohamed.
Which verses do they sing? Koranic verses.
Who's lives they are imitating? The lives of the prophet and his followers.


Goku wrote:
Quote:
And anyway as usual when the koran speaks about people, men or women, it speaks about muslims. All the others are called infidels or people of the Book.

Arent there any non-Muslim women?

Sorry Goku, think please, when I said infidels or people of the book, women are included of course.

Goku wrote:
Quote:
Therefore infidels can be married against their will

No.

Yes! I supported my statement with islamic text. And there is much more texts like this pasted on this site. Anyway, think for a second, do you think Safya after seeing her whole family beheaded will make sex with mohamed on her own free will?

Just google and read your own scriptures and your own islamic sites. Not the one who was embellished for the gullible westerner.

I brought support to my claim.
You didn't. So again your answer is no answer. Your whinning "no" is not enough.


Goku wrote:
Quote:
you just need to enslave them (koran for all time?!!! Goku wake up!) and if they are married to kill the husband, like mohamed did to Safia and to many others.
http://islam.tc/ask-imam/view.php?q=10896 [/color]

O ye who believe! Stand out firmly For justice, as witnesses To Allah, even as against Yourselves, or your parents, Or your kin, and whether It be (against) rich or poor: For Allah can best protect both. Follow not the lusts (Of your hearts), lest ye Swerve, and if ye Distort (justice) or decline To do justice, verily Allah is well-acquainted With all that ye do. (The Noble Quran, 4:135)"

Let those who find not the wherewithal for marriage keep themselves chaste, until God gives them means out of His grace. And if any of your slaves ask for a deed in writing (to enable them to earn their freedom for a certain sum), give them such a deed if ye know any good in them: yea, give them something yourselves out of the means which God has given to you. But force not your maids to prostitution when they desire chastity, in order that ye may make a gain in the goods of this life. But if anyone compels them, yet, after such compulsion, is God, Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful (to them), (The Noble Quran, 24:33)"

Do you read what you copy pasted to me?
"But if anyone compels them, yet, after such compulsion, is God, Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful (to them)"
which means 'But if anyone rape them, yet, after they are no more virgin, god will not blame them, but you can pimp them now they are not chaste anymore.'


Goku wrote:
Quote:
In the "Jihads" (Islamic wars) that took place, women were also, at times, taken as prisoners of war by the Muslim warriors. These women captives used to be distributed as part of the booty among the soldiers, after their return to Islamic territory. Each soldier was then entitled to have relations ONLY with the slave girl over whom he was given the RIGHT OF OWNERSHIP and NOT with those slave girls that were not in his possession. This RIGHT OF OWNERSHIP was given to him by the "Ameerul-Mu'mineen" (Head of the Islamic state.) Due to this right of ownership, it became lawful for the owner of a slave girl to have intercourse with her.

The slaves were given rights and people were ordered to treat them well.

Do you hear yourself?
You are talking about humans here.
You are talking about me, and my daughter, and all the infidels you know.
[b]HOW CAN YOU APOLOGIZE FOR SLAVERY!!!



I will continue with the rest in a few hours.
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Vaccinate yourself against islam: read the koran!
Orenda: islam orders women to hide themselves so rapists won't be tempted to harass them, it is as stupid as to ask colored people to hide themselves so racists won't be tempted to harass them


Last edited by Anna Doe on Mon Jun 19, 2006 10:40 pm; edited 2 times in total
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doubtless



Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 6442

PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Goku wrote:
Muhammadan is the term used by people who dont have any credibility so they think its a good insult to call Muslims Muhammadans.


That is not correct. Muhammedan is an accurate description of the follower of muhammed from the view point of a kaffir. A kaffir does not accept Islam or a notion of submission to a Allah. Now muhammedans like to call themselves muslims and they have a whole mythology on why they should be called muslims. A kaffir who calls them muslim confuses and Islam thrives on such confusion. Allah is God, Isa is Jesus, Musa is Moses, etc. None of that is really true and using the same words allows the fuzzy and illogic of islam to go unquestioned. Allah of the quran is not the God of the bible. Isa of the quran is not the Jesus of the bible. Musa of the Quran is not moses of the torab. So calling a follower of muhammed a muhammedan is far more accurate and a "real" description of who is being referred than the implicit acceptance of the nonsense of Islam when "muslim" is used.

Kaffirs take the first step into dhimmitude when they use the word muslim as a factual description of a person who follows muhammed. The first step of brainwashing for such a person begins when they start to refer themselves as "muslims".
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Anna Doe



Joined: 25 Dec 2005
Posts: 2745
Location: Somewhere on the spheric kafir earth, vaccinating people against islam

PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:43 am    Post subject: Re: Goku is already 6 months here Reply with quote

Goku wrote:
islam.tc/ask-imam wrote:
It may, superficially, appear distasteful to copulate with a woman who is not a man's legal wife, but once Shariah makes something lawful, we have to accept it as lawful, whether it appeals to our taste, or not;[/b] and whether we know its underlying wisdom or not. It is necessary for a Muslim to be acquainted with the laws of Shariah, but it is not necessary for him to delve into each law in order to find the underlying wisdom of these laws because knowledge of the wisdom of some of the laws may be beyond his puny comprehension. Allah Ta'ala has said in the Holy
Quraan: "Wa maa ooteetum min al-ilm illaa qaleelan" which means, more or less, that, "You have been given a very small portion of knowledge". Hence, if a person fails to comprehend the underlying wisdom of any law of Shariah, he cannot regard it as a fault of Shariah (Allah forbid), on the contrary, it is the fault of his own perception and lack of understanding, because no law of Shariah is contradictory to wisdom.

I have not studied Sharia Law.

I haven't either, but you don't need to study it to read it. I think it is inspired from allah, mohamed and the koran, so the sharia should be perfect, for all time and places, and of course following the same principle: what is written is what you should do.

Just read what those promoting and enforcing sharia do and say. Again, does Goku the arrogant convert thinks he could understand the sharia better than the taliban? the ayatollas? No of course.

For example it is clear from this text, that a muslim following the sharia can rape his sex-slaves. PERIOD. Not need to even force marriage on them! You own them, so you own their vaginas. Now what don't you understand? Let's see if you understand what the sharia says: Should a muslim owns a infidel's vagina? (Aren't we daughters of pigs, apes, demons, scums...?)
Yes you are right, the muslim can own a vagina because he owns the whole slave! it is halal, allah taala knows best.

How do you feel about owning a human being and her vagina?

Well, sharia tells you how to think but also how to feel: It is good and legal and do not feel any remorse and distate! Not everything that is good for you has to be understand by you! Don't think! Let allah, the koran, the sharia and mohamed do it for you! And what the model of manking and his mercyfull god had come up with? That humans can be a muslim's property and that women can be his sex toys. And that if you don't like it, don't think too much, allah tala knows it best!

If the sharia says something is lawful, it is lawful, rape the girl and shut up! Or are you questioning allahTaalaKnowsBest and his prophet mohamed (PRMTETL)? Are you a dissident? Do you know what is done to dissidents?

Again, I see two types of muslims, those who agree and those who fear. Less you agree, more you fear.


Goku wrote:
islam.tc/ask-imam wrote:
Nevertheless, the wisdom underlying the permission granted by Shariah to copulate with a slave woman is as follows: The LEGAL possession that a Muslim receives over a slave woman from the "Ameerul-Mu'mineen" (the Islamic Head of State) gives him legal credence to have coition with the slave woman in his possession, just as the marriage ceremony gives him legal credence to have coition with his wife. In other words, this LEGAL POSSESSION is, in effect, a SUBSTITUTE of the MARRIAGE CEREMONY. A free woman cannot be 'possessed', bought or sold like other possessions; therefore Shariah instituted a 'marriage ceremony' in which affirmation and consent takes place, which gives a man the right to copulate with her. On the other hand, a slave girl can be possessed and even bought and sold, thus, this right of possession, substituting as a marriage ceremony, entitles the owner to copulate with her. A similar example can be found in the slaughtering of animals; that after a formal slaughtering process, in which the words, "Bismillahi Allahu Akbar" are recited, goats, cows, etc.; become "Halaal" and lawful for consumption, whereas fish becomes "Halaal" merely through 'possession' which substitutes for the slaughtering.
In other words, just as legal possession of a fish that has been fished out of the water, makes it Halaal for human consumption without the initiation of a formal slaughtering process; similarly legal possession of a slave woman made her Halaal for the purpose of coition with her owner without the initiation of a formal marriage ceremony.

And the views of one person are so important?

You don't understand do you? This guy only came up with the wisdom he found in this sharia law. Only the wisdom is his view. The sharia law itself, i.e. "the permission granted by Shariah to copulate with a slave woman" is a real sharia law, written by islamic lawyer makers of the 9 or something century, not his opinion.

So disregard the wisdom of this guy, but still you have that islam sees legal and halal to own a human being and rape a women that is not your wife.

You have to say "Bismillahi Allahu Akbar" to slaughter your own cattle but you don't need to say it for a fish. The fish was free and by fishing it, it became your possession. When you marry a muslima you write a agreement and she is yours but when you enslave a kafir or dhimmi, she became your possession and there is no need of any agreement, you own her.

Of course this is not wisdom for my ear, this is garbage and archaic and barbaric and rape and stupid. But in your religion, this explanation of the fact you don't need to marry a sex-slave to rape her is wisdom.

GOKU WAKE UP! You are following a cult. THINK GOKU THINK! This wisdom, this law, this koran, this mohamed, this allah are evil. RUN GOKU RUN!!!


Goku wrote:
islam.tc/ask-imam wrote:
In short, permission to have intercourse with a slave woman was not something barbaric or uncivilised; on the contrary, it was almost as good as a marriage ceremony.

Only if the slave girl gives her permission.

Goku, are you playing the stupid with me?
Where did you see the slave girl gives her permission? Since when a slave gives permission for anything!

You don't know how to read english? Reread the text, the paragraph prior to this sentence.
Permission FROM THE SHARIA to have intercourse with a slave woman is not barbaric or uncivilised, on the contrary, this permission from the sharia is like a marriage ceremony.

OK, I will explain to you again your own faith:
When you get married to a muslima, the marriage means that the muslima answers yes, to all the time you will want ever wherever whenever to make sex with her.

It is why marital rape is not mentioned in the koran. Because there cannot be rape in a marriage. As soon as you got married to her, everytime you want her, she cannot say no or yes. This right was taken from her the day she married you. When she agreed to marry you, it was a eternal yes to all the time you will want to have sex with her. Even on the saddle of a camel.

So when the sharia says that slavery is like a marriage ceremony, they are not only sounding cruel and sarcastic but it is very cold minded: the sex slave cannot say yes or no as a married muslima cannot say yes or no. The muslima said a eternal yes when she married to you and the sex slave never had this one time choice anyway, the day she became your slave, the yes was utterd by the sharia law for her. muslimas are cattle, non-muslima are fishes.

You domesticate a cattle but you catch a fish.
You marry muslima but you enslave a kafira or dhimmia.


Is this another example that muslima are like cattle?
What do you think is the wisdom of allah in this verse?
Tabari IX:113 “Allah permits you to shut them in separate rooms and to beat them, but not severely. If they abstain, they have the right to food and clothing. Treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Qur’an.”
Let's see if you can compare a goat with a muslima:
"allah permits you to shut them in separate field and to beat them, but not severely. If they abstain, they have the right to food and keep their wool. Treat your goat well for they are domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. allah has made the enjoyment of their flesh lawful in his Qur’an."

So our poor slave girl didn't give her permission, she was never asked for it. The day she was enslave or bought in the market by a muslim is the day she got halal for him to rape. The muslima gives a one time permission for all the duration of her marriage, she won't never be asked again. The day she got married or given into marriage by her parents, is the day she got halal for him to rape.

That is why mohamed didn't ask the 9 year old Aisha if she would like to have sex with him. He didn't have to even ask her! The day her father and mohamed's brother gave her to mohamerde, is the day that she "said" yes to all the time this pedophil will put his adult penis into her immature vagina.

Got it? What a nice faith you have
.


Goku wrote:
islam.tc/ask-imam wrote:
Similarly, if a slave woman was married previously in enemy territory to a non-Muslim, and is then captured alone, i.e. without her husband, it is not permissible for any Muslim to have relations with her until her previous marriage is nullified, and that is done by bringing her to an Islamic country and making her the legal possession of a Muslim. Bringing her into Islamic territory necessitates the rendering of her previous marriage as null and void by Islamic law because with her husband in enemy territory and she in Islamic territory, it becomes virtually impossible for them to meet and live as man and wife. That is why it is not permissible to have intercourse with a woman whose husband is also taken into captivity and put into slavery with her.

...

With all these similarities it does not make sense to regard copulation with a slave woman distasteful whilst copulation with one's wife is not regarded as distasteful.

A question that may still arise is that why does the owner of a slave woman not marry her before having relations with her? Well, this is impracticable because of a few intricate technicalities. Firstly, we know that a man has to give "Mahr" (dower-money) to his bride. The Holy Quran says:-

[ A r a b i c ]
Trans: "And allowed unto you is whatsoever is beyond that, so that ye may seek them with your substance (i.e. with your dower-money)(4:24).

Thus, "Mahr" is a conditional prerequisite of Nikaah. If a man has to marry his slave woman, it would not be possible for him to abide by this condition of 'Mahr' because by Islamic law, a slave does not have rights over any property, i.e. she cannot own anything. In fact, whatever she has with her too, i.e. her clothing, etc., is all regarded as the property of her owner. Therefore, If he gets married to his slave girl and gives her the 'Mahr' she cannot become the owner of it because she has no right of ownership. The 'Mahr' would bounce back to the owner of the slave girl and it would tantamount to giving the 'Mahr' to himself. Hence, the owner would become the payer as well as the PAYEE of the 'Mahr' which would only result in the mockery of the whole system of 'Mahr'. It would be absolutely superfluous to have such a marriage ceremony performed that makes a mockery of the 'Mahr' system. Hence, the owner cannot get married to her while she remains a slave girl. However, if he sets her free, then he can get married to her on the basis of her having become a liberated woman.

Although the owner himself cannot get married to his slave woman, without giving her freedom, he can get her married to someone else. If he gets her married to someone else, then only her husband can now have intercourse with her and the owner's right of having intercourse with her comes to an end. All these facts prove that the slave girl does not become an instrument of sex; on the contrary, her honour is upheld, in that only one man is allowed to have intercourse with her JUST AS only one man (the husband) is allowed to have intercourse with his lawfully wedded wife.

Islam ensured that the slave girl's duties were not restricted merely to domestic chores but also gave her master permission to copulate with her. This concession created an atmosphere of love and harmony between the slave girl and her master. Islam thereby raised the status of the war captive-maidens close to that of wives. It was a psychological cure to her grief-stricken heart, being deprived of her family and thrown into the hands of a strange society.

...

In fact, Rasulullah Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam himself possessed slave girls. In this way, he was able to demonstrate practically how kindly and politely the slave should be treated. Because it is relevant to the topic, it would be appropriate to mention here that Rasulullah Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam also had four slave girls. One was Hazrat Maria Qibtiyya Radhiallahu Anha who was the mother of Rasulullah Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam's son, Ibrahim Alayhis Salaam who passed away in infanthood. The others were, Hazrat Rayhaan binte Samoon; Hazrat Nafisa and a fourth, whose name has not been recorded in History.

So I gather, slave girls are allowed for marriage.

Excuse me Goku, did you read the text? Do you understand english? Or it is islam that you don't understand?

Slave girls don't need marriage. They are owned. Enslave in jihad or bought at the market. For muslims to find wisdom in their wick sharia and islam and allah and mohamed, they found out that slavery concept is like a marriage. The day the slave is yours, is like a marriage ceremony.

They are not married to their owner. The fact he owns them gives him the right to rape them.

Now in islam you can have sex only to one you are married to or a sex slave without husband. Therefore this last quote is about how to get rid of the husband so you can rape his wife: simple! Kill the husband. Or if you can't, the fact that you live in another country, annuls her marriage to her husband. Very simple too, right? this muslims were genious! How could they rape the slave if mohamed told them you can rape only what is married to you or owned, but you are not supposed in the koran to get married to someone already married. So here the muslim wisdom is to kidnap the woman or to kill her husband. BRILLIANT!

And then Goku, these slaves are allowed.... to get rape! You were almost right.


Goku wrote:
Anna Doe wrote:
What are you a koran only muslim?

I am not. I accept Hadith too.

Now that you know a sharia law, do you accept sharia? You know it is not more or less archaic, barbaric, violent than the koran and ahadith!

Are you proud of following a pedophil/rapist/enslaver/torturer/mass-killer/thief/liar?
Well I proved to you he was a pedophil, a rapist, a enslaver, a torturer, a mass-killer but not thief, liar? So you have the right to still believe he was a model for all mankind and a prophet of god...


Goku wrote:
Anna Doe wrote:
Many hadith and the sunnah show muslims can marry underage girls

Again Aisha was 6 year old..


Isn't it underaged?

Does it say anywhere we gotta marry underage girls?

There is no need to say a muslim can marry a underaged girl, the fact that the Koran didn't forbid it, makes is permissible.

Sometimes I think I know your religion more than many muslims!
Does it say anywhere that a muslim can wear the color blue? No, only that you can't wear girlish colors. Here it is the same. You can't marry your mum, sister, daugher. But it is not written you can't marry a little girl. It is why mohamed married Aisha of course, it wasn't forbidden by allah.


Goku wrote:
Anna Doe wrote:
I don't have irrational fear of islam. All my fears about islam are founded on reason: logic, history, free thinking, criticism. Did you watch a beheading Goku? How a man of god, a good guy, a model for mankind can demand and watch some 800 beheadings of men and teenagers in one day. Can you imagine the cries, shouting, pains, fears, blood, disgust, piuking of victims and beheaders?

Thats been discussed at length.

And what did you think? That it is normal for a good man and a good prophet to let 800 men and teenagers beheaded in front of his eyes? Without stopping the massacre?

How many years you are a muslim Goku?
Are your parents converted too?

Because I can't believe you had accepted all these things when you have reached reason.
I don't think you are a convert.
But if you are, you were small and didn't have the possibility to blossom in a normal human person.

Even a dog looking at so much beheading would have gone crazy. Just imagine all that pain, blood, shoutings...



I will continue tomorrow, thank you.
_________________
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Orenda: islam orders women to hide themselves so rapists won't be tempted to harass them, it is as stupid as to ask colored people to hide themselves so racists won't be tempted to harass them
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MassiveZebra



Joined: 12 Jun 2005
Posts: 3078

PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 9:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Goku is already 6 months here Reply with quote

Goku wrote:

Only if the slave girl gives her permission.


Goku, you said this sometime ago to explain that a muslim man can have sex with his slave woman only if she permits him to do so. I have only three questions:

1. Is the muslim man also required to take his slave woman's permission before making her a slave?

2. Does he have to check to ensure she doeesn't mind being a slave?

3. Do YOU know what a slave is?
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Anna Doe



Joined: 25 Dec 2005
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Location: Somewhere on the spheric kafir earth, vaccinating people against islam

PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't continue my answer to Goku the next day, and I didn't answer J. Hernandez because I answered Goku, may be one day...

Goku didn't answer me...

I just wanted to link here for the record, the thread where Goku found an excuse to close his eyes about the immoralities of mohamed and islam: the age of Aisha when she got married to mohamed and the rapes he did to her as a 9 lunar years old cannot be mature to agree for sex and the rapes of slaves allowed in the peacefull, mercyfull, moral islam.
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=440372#440372
The fact that Hinduism, atheism, Christianity or Judaism, whatever you think are evil, doesn't make islam not evil.

He closed his eyes, but the crack I think is there. Of course we shouldn't loose hope for him although he is obviously an informed muslim now and therefore cannot be seen as a innocent victim anymore.
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23578&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0


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Jihadwolf



Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 31
Location: USA

PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 7:39 pm    Post subject: Children wearing Hijab Reply with quote

The hair is the beauty of women and girls. The girl children wear hijab to hide their beauty from men and boys. And it is a Law sent down by ALLAH. May ALLAH be pleased with these Muslimah girls.
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Huston



Joined: 05 Dec 2004
Posts: 4790
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 10:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Children wearing Hijab Reply with quote

Jihadwolf wrote:
The hair is the beauty of women and girls.


Is it? I find it to be the eyes. A society can make it be the mark of beauty, but society does not dictate what facts are, and fact in the case of beauty is inconclusive. However, this may not be true; studies do show that the major contributing factor of 'universal' beauty is in facial symmetry and proportions. In fact, with this, the hijab only strengthens this by putting all the focus on the face. So hair would be debilitating to beauty, unless if were to be stressed by a society.
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